Jostapha and I seem to have a difference of opinion regarding Disney, so I am taking it to the Fight Club! Yeah!!!
That's exactly what Fight Club is for, and I'm actually kinda glad to have a new rant thread, because the first one has just gone into recipes. And I'm not gonna pull my punches here, this is Fight Club. Violent and aggressive disagreement is a go here. That's why Fight Club is a whole separate section. Here we take off the kid gloves and go rounds with each other, just like in the Fight Club movie. We're all friends on the outside, but watch out in here.
So lets hear it, Jostapha! What bad do you got to say about Disney?
You're kidding, right? Where do I start?
So, to draw a few lines, I am not taking about Disney as a company. Sure, they have some shady practices...
Granted. I'll stay away from their corporate policy and focus on their social butchery. No problem, there's plenty of material there to work with. Permit me to draw another line, so there's no mistaking what we're fighting about here:
But! You can't say nothing about the quality of their animated films... Disney puts out the best American animation, bar none... On top of that, their animation is flawless and beautiful. It is hard to find someone who does it better.
Let me say right off the bat that I have no opinion one way or the other about their filmmaking skills. I couldn't care less if the drawings are pretty or not.
I'm not attacking their drawings, it's entirely irrelevant to me. Moot point if you're arguing Disney with me. I don't give a rat's ass about their little cartoon pictures. That's not what my complaint is about.
is what my complaint is about:
Sure, they play fast and loose with the folk tales, but that is perfectly acceptable.
That is exactly where I draw the line. No, it is not even vaguely acceptable
. Not even a little bit. That which you brush off as irrelevant is the entire thing I take issue with. They are butchers, and that's all there is to it. Adapting is not the same as bastardizing. Disney does not adapt stories. They ream stories up the ass from beginning to end, perform a little vivisection on them, and then sell them to an ignorant and passive populace.
The nature of folk tales is that there is no "one true version". They have been told and re-told for generations, each time altered to suit the needs of the current population.
Not mirror-image reversed endings! You go too far with this statement. Oral tradition stories are all about remaining true to the one true version. They may be altered in word and phrasing, details and nation, but never in meaning, never in concept, never in their messages! That is the "one true version" of fairy tales which I assert does
The story of Cinderella is a great example, because as a folk tale it goes waaaaayyyy back in time. The ancient Greco-Egyptian version of Cinderella where her name is Rhodopis is considered the oldest version, having been written down in the first century BC. It's also found in China in the late 800s, Europe, Africa... it's a universal story with several universal key points that DO NOT CHANGE no matter how much the details change. Disney has gone and rewritten the moral of the story. That is their crime in my eyes.
Give me an example that contradicts this and I'll think about the possibility of considering the idea of contemplating your absurd statement. What stories have been redone to suit the populace of the time before our time? Little Mermaid? Jungle Book? Peter Pan? Pinnochio? Alice in Wonderland? These came out of books that were not
oral tradition first. What was adapted and changed and fucked up before
the monsters got hold of it? Snow White? Sleeping Beauty? Cinderella? Aladdin? Please...Fairy tales serve a purpose in culture; they are parables to illustrate reality and how to deal with it.
In the older European versions, when Cinderella finds out about the ball, she earns
her "fairy godmother's" (or more often her dead mother's) help, doesn't just sit about whining and then get her way. Some details change, certainly... sometimes she gets the magical help by purchasing a magical item with money she earned from working. When she's being chased and hunted like an animal she uses her wits to escape. A heroine who earns her happy-ever-after. Moral of the story? Don't sit on your fat ass waiting to be handed everything on a silver platter, git out there and earn it. Be clever, be strong, use your wits and your heart, and you will come through adversity with self-respect and honour. Disney turned that girl into a simpering victim who just sort of slumps around. Hell, even the mice do her dressmaking for her. She contributes nothing of her own to making her world better,
but she gets everything a girl could want by the end of the story.
What kind of "morality and sensibility" is that
teaching the children of America? Look at today's society. Several generations now (they've been in business so long) of children who've been taught to think that life is supposed to be easy, and you don't have to take any personal responsibility for anything. It works in the fairy tales, after all. Sit back and hold out your hand and you'll get what you want. Then they get out in the real world and discover that that's not how it works. You do
have to be clever, courageous and strong today just as you have always had to. Culture may have changed, we've been trained to think contrary to reality, but reality doesn't care about our wishes, and it has not changed to fit that world image, Atom. Reality is still hard, ugly and brutal. Where have you been all your life, under a rock? Maybe a Disney-induced rock? I know you're not that naieve.
Disney merely updates the stories for modern morality and sensibility, in the same way that they have been updated many, many times before.
No they don't - they dictate modern morality and sensibility by spoon-feeding the next generation pure crap. There's a difference between responding to our culture and creating our culture. You have to be able to see the crap, Atom. How can you be blind to it?
Fairy tales are society's lessonbooks for how to survive in a harsh world, put into a simple story format for children to understand. At least, they used to be. Now the harshness of reality has not changed, it's still there and it still sucks. And fairy tales are still there for children to learn from, but Disney's fucked up the message, revised the survival handbook of life until it's unusable. But that doesn't mean people no longer look to those fairy tales as an example of how to live. They do. That's the crux of the problem. We're being given useless role models and actively poisonous teachings on how to live. Puree of fairy tale.
I can hardly wait to see the Disney version of the Gulf War. Oh wait a minute, I already have. It's called "the news."